Healthcare is undergoing major disruption as new sources of competition combine with changing consumer expectations. We explore these issues with Mayur Gupta, Chief Digital Officer at Healthgrades.

Mayur Gupta is the Senior Vice President, responsible for the OmniChannel Solutions business and Digital Capabilities across the organization. He heads up the vision, strategy and activation of one of the largest digital marketplace platforms in healthcare; delivering seamless OmniChannel Experiences and always-on patient engagement that drive better health outcomes and maximizes lifetime value for hospitals. He has established a Digital Center of Excellence that is continuously evolving digital capabilities and establishing new standards and best practices across Integrated Experience Planning, Media, Content, CRM & Consumer Segmentation, Data Analytics & Insights, Marketing Technologies and Platforms both for Healthgrades B2C business as well as the B2B business.

Prior to Healthgrades, Mayur was the Chief Marketing Technologist at Kimberly Clark, responsible for the vision, strategy and development of all digital & eCommerce capabilities across KC's global iconic brands. He was a catalyst in the company's digital transformation and established a global marketing technology & digital capability organization that delivered Omni-Channel Seamless Experiences across Media, Content, Data, Analytics and eCommerce.

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Digital Transformation in Healthcare with Mayur Gupta, Chief Digital Officer, Healthgrades

Michael Krigsman:

Welcome to episode number 187 of CXOTalk, I’m Michael Krigsman. Our guest today is Mayur Gupta, who is the Chief Digital Officer of Healthgrades and our conversation is going to be all around digital transformation in healthcare. Mayur, how are you?

Mayur Gupta:

I'm doing great thanks Michael, thanks for having me on your show again.

Michael Krigsman:

Well this is the second time that you're appearing on CXOTalk and I'm so excited to talk about health care and to talk about digital transformation, because it's something that effects all of us on a very regular basis. So tell us about Healthgrades and tell us what you guys are doing.

Mayur Gupta:

I'm sure you know I’m still in this world of health care. Obviously as a consumer we all touch it in many forms and shapes, but before I share a little bit about my company, you know one of the things that I've always heard about healthcare is that it's so far behind it's is increasingly slow which is almost an oxymoron but it's true. But in the last 12 months if there's one thing that I’ve realized is having been you know in many different verticals some CPG and finance as well, the healthcare industry may certainly be far behind but by no means its slow. I think because the bar is so ow it’s the velocity of change in health care is so much faster you know then every single vertical that you can imagine.

But you know Healthgrade very briefly, we are one of the largest you know healthcare platforms I call them the health care marketplaces where we get around 400 million visitors every year. Almost a million a day you know, we're coming for the right doctor, the right hospital and what we provide to them is an always-on patient engagement that drives them you know through their healthcare journey.  And many ways you know enabling this notion of consumerism we’re for the first time you putting the consumer the center and enabling and inspiring the consumer to to be the owner of his or her own health and our families health. And the way we do that is we leveraged a lot of quantitative and qualitative data across you know medical, clinical, and socio-economic, and behavioral data, to enable the users you know to find the right doctor, the right hospital and resolve issues around discoverability and accessibilities by making online appointments you know for you and your family. But then at the same time we are now evolving ourselves into an always-on patient engagement. So we help you manage your appointments. We help you get prepared for your appointments. We help you manage your journey even beyond appointments to drive you know better health outcomes. So it's a fascinating opportunity in journey and we sit right at that intersection connecting the you know, the consumers to the right provider.

And we also have a b2b, b2c model where we work with around 600 hospitals in the country, leveraging our data science know creating predictive models where we used to predict around 160 plus you know health conditions. And the way we use that is you know, our whole effort is to drive better health outcome by engaging consumers higher up in the funnel. So you know how do we prevent somebody from going into an ICU?  By predicting the potential health condition and driving the right messaging through whichever channel you know we may be engaging on, and driving a certain behavior.  So it's you know it's a massive opportunity. And like you said it touches every single human being on this planet.

Michael Krigsman:

I want everybody to know we're talking with Mayur Gupta, who is the Chief Digital Officer for Healthgrades. And we're talking about change in the healthcare industry that affects all of us. And while we're talking, there is a tweet chat going on with the hashtag cxotalk. So Mayur, the changes that you're driving empowering healthcare consumers giving them access to information about their conditions, about doctors, about hospitals, why is this so fundamentally important ? Why don't we consider you to be, “Well this is just a nice consumer website” But why does is actually really matter in the end?

Mayur Gupta:

Yeah, I think there are there are 2 broad reasons Michael. I think and this is obviously a lot of it is very important you know in our country here in the US. But two big reasons, one is if you look at the dynamics in healthcare and what's going on in the country today the cost of care is dramatically shifted to the consumer. You know deductibles are going out of the roof. At the same time the networks in are becoming far more narrow. That's on one hand, so the economics and the business model for the healthcare industry is dramatically evolving, and with new policy, the new law like ACA, you know a big shift is happening where the focus and incentivation model is shifting to the quality of care as opposed to the volume of care, and that's a fundamental shift. Because for the first time we are starting to hold the providers, the physicians, and the hospital's accountable for the quality of care and the outcome as opposed to just a number of people that we treat and how often they treat them.

So that's on one hand that's driving this fundamental shift, because now you are being held accountable for how healthy you are as opposed to how well you treat somebody, so a shift from sickness and treatment to health and wellness.

The other big shift is again, this is healthcare agnostic, this is industry agnostic. We used to be operating in a world in an era of the brand you know, then we evolved into an area of the retailer. We all know we are by far living in an era of the container. It's the same consumer that used to you know, I often say click a dash button from Amazon to order the next supply of (Corox? 06:19) that they expect in four hours. It's the same consumer that uses the Uber app to expect you know, a car waiting for them outside the house within you know within one minute to go wherever they want. That's the same model saying look, I can do that. I can use an Airbnb to find the right house, book that house in a span of 10 - 15 minutes seven seats across. I don't have time now to go into a hospital and wait or wait for three months you know, to make the next appointment for a kid. 

You know she’s raising the bar in terms of convenience, in terms of instant gratification, in terms of getting the value and the experience. And you know for something that is so integral to her and her family.

Michael Krigsman:

And what does this do to the relationship between patient and I was going to say the healthcare provider, but it's not just the doctor. It's the doctor’s office, it's the hospital. So how does this change the relationship between the patient and the healthcare system?

Mayur Gupta:

It's redefined it, it's to redefined it at so many levels, and again this is not scientific. If you look at how we all operate as well. You know taking our kids to the doctor you know it's redefined it in a way that you know back in the day hospitals would be fine just focusing on driving volume or acquisition. Now with so much power controlling choice that is going into the consumer’s hand, there is no such thing as loyalty, because the barrier for me to find the right doctor, the right care is diminishing.

You know I can choose and find the right doctor based on actual qualitative data not just because my parents were going to the doctor. Not just because my whole family has been to that hospital many times. You know, you usually go back to the hospital where you were born. Now you're looking for a primary care physician. I’m looking for an oncologist. I want to look at not just your degree, I’m going to look at you know how many surgeries have you done, not for your career. How many surgeries have you done especially in the last six months?

How many of those actually went to complication. You know what was the mortality rate? What was the success rate?

The fact that all this information very similar to how you shop for a television, or how you show for an airline, is not available on your fingertips. The bar to engage and build the loyalty and lifetime value for that patient is so much higher, which means that hospitals and health systems have to realize that one, they are now living in operating in a digital world, which means they cannot look at digital as a thing. They have to realize its healthcare in a digital world now. Two, they have to fundamentally evolve and not put the health care, health system or the provider at the center but literally put the consumer at the center and understand that the goal of that consumer engagement relationship is no longer about the clinical output. It is about convenience, it is about experience, and is about the overarching value that she expects you know as the end consumer.

Michael Krigsman:

So how much of this is driven by need for change in the healthcare system and how much of this is driven by the as you mentioned earlier, the broader shift towards a more consumer centric approach that brands in general have with their customers and potential buyers.

Mayur Gupta:

I think it's both ways. It's no different it's a movie being replayed all over again. It's transformation we've seen in finance, it’s the transformation we saw perhaps 10, 11, 12 years back when we had the flurry of multi-channel players, and e-trader’s, and the Amazons and you know the Facebook’s of the world. We're going through the same transformation and that's a fun you know, this is not invention or innovation this is purely application of the same principles, the same best practices, the same platform, and the same technologies.

And to answer your question I think it's a transformation that is inside out as it is outside in, you know it's a mindset shift, so that the economics are evolving. A lot of it is driven like I said before, as the policies and the law has evolved trying to change the state of health care. And just to give you some context of the state of health care. You know United States of America spends more money on health care than any other country in this whole world. And the largest cause of death in our country believe it or not, the second largest cause of death in a country is still medical care gone wrong. And normal you know citizens like you and I perhaps don't look at that and not aware of that. But if you apply that you know, you’ll understand that the transformation now in healthcare has to come from every single aspect of the ecosystem. And I think the protagonist of the transformation is no longer the government, no longer the hospital, it is the consumer. She's finally pushing the envelope that's when a site like healthcare dot gov goes down and there's a fiasco, the consumer is no longer saying, hey that's healthcare. I give you the benefit of the doubt you know, you can’t afford to go down and crash.

The consumer does not see the channel and she no longer sees the industry. She expects the same value and the same experience and the agility that she gets from other parts of her life.

Michael Krigsman:

We have a question from Twitter and I’d like to remind everybody again that as we talk there's a tweet chat going on please contribute. You can ask your questions at hashtag cxotalk. And we have a question from Arsalan Khan, who says that other industries have set up information exchanges, what about data exchange, information exchange inside the healthcare industry?

Mayur Gupta:

Yeah, I think that's a great question and I always look at data as the oil in our world now and there's nothing more powerful than that. But I think the bigger challenge is not just in having those exchanges, but it’s also how you apply those changes to solve human behaviors, to solve business problems. But to answer that very categorically I think that journey began you know what the implementation or rather a forced implementation of the EMR and EHRs, you know a few years back you know within the country. And where healthcare is going now is a very strong realization out of research that says that 80% of our health today actually is influenced by non-medical determinants. Which means that just the clinical data and having that being available you know through many systems out there now are pretty pervasive is just not enough. Which means yes there is a massive focus on creating the data exchange, but is no longer limited to just clinical, or claims it has been the standard for many years. It is now driving convergence and harmonization of that clinical and medical data with socio-economic data, you know what you do, where you live, and what car do you drive. You know do you buy or do you rent. You know what do you eat, what are you reading, what are you watching.

You know and many other aspects. Are you married or single, you know how many kids and so on. I think there is a firm belief that ultimately, the ability to protect the right health conditions. The ability to influencing the human behavior towards a better health outcomes is going to come with that universal understanding of that individual. You know one, individual. Two, across medical and social economic and even more importantly, socio-economic. Three, across online behavior and across all behavior and that’s the power, and that's where believe it or not, that's where massive amount of investment is going, you know on the side of players like us providing the capability.

On the health system in the hospital side from the pharma side, and now we are figuring out you know how best to leverage and apply the data to deliver more contextual and more personalized experiences and messaging. Two, pharma and you know pharmaceutical and insurance and payers are using that do to influence you know insurance rates for example, and three, in many cases to drive more predictive and preventive healthcare.

Michael Krigsman:

So when consumers have this data, it of course changes the relationship with healthcare providers so what does it do to healthcare providers? What is the impact on the provider when patients have this kind of data?

Mayur Gupta:

Yeah I don't think we're at a point Michael where where consumers or patients have access to that data. I think we are in the very early stages where you know the healthcare ecosystem is just starting to gather the data. Two, they’re starting to harmonize and master the data at an individual or household level. And three then we are getting smarter about how we leverage and apply it, you know with cognitive computing with the IBM Watson’s of the world, you know where as opposed to like I said supposed to have reactive ways of treating sickness you get into more proactive ways of preventing sickness.

We're not at a point where the consumer has access to this data. However, what's happening though is the consumer has access to a lot more information which is the derived from of data, a lot more information to make smarter decision. A lot more information which is qualitative and quantitative about the doctor, about the hospital. And that's where there's a lot of advancement being made because again, just another data point we've seen you know that five out of six decisions around choosing a hospital would actually be overturned. If he gave the right information to the consumer, to the patients, which means that only one of those six decisions or one of six patient’s actually make the right decision when you're making it without a data and without information.

Michael Krigsman:

Mayur, so these changes that are taking place in healthcare we can describe in one way as being an example of digital transformation. Can you place it into context a little bit more broadly; you've had a deep exposure to other industries that are undergoing transformation. And so give us the broader context of digital transformation and make some comparisons with other industries as well.

Mayur Gupta:

Yeah I think it's a great point and obviously we all know digital transformation is sort of a buzzword right now, and we all are used to a new buzzword I believe once one every year. So this is the one that's really hot, but there is some truth in the fact that digital transformation is industry agnostic. It's the same transformation that we are going through on retail or we have been going through retail. We’re going from that and manufacturing. And we are now starting to go through it in healthcare and all different aspects of healthcare. You know it's not just hospitals, its providers, payers, it’s pharma you know and across-the-board.

But I think  if I will summarize digital transformation, you know I recently read an MIT study that created you know three broad areas of digital transformation at a macro level, and I’ll give you my two cents on once you dive deeper what does that mean in terms of healthcare? But the three broad areas is one, consumer engagement. You know, the first and foremost facet of digital transformation is putting the consumer right in the center, and not just in your thinking but in your execution and your operations. And how you define success, what does the value look like for you, and who really is a protagonist you know if your story.

Two, is in creating you know digitize solutions which means digital transformation is not about it just technology. It's not just about automation. It means really redefining your business model. It means redefining consumer engagement and the value you bring and you know identifying new channels. So if you're a manufacturer you know who's been selling for the longest time through brick and mortar is now looking at you know online, is now looking at ecommerce, is now looking at social commerce, or mobile commerce. And it is creating those alternative channels. It is trying to be whatever the consumer may be in so many ways agnostic of channel, you know the whole notion of Omni-channel and I think that's the that's the second aspect.

And the third aspect is driving business operations. You know again depending on who you are and what industry you may be in it could be anything from what GE is doing to automate and digitize the back end operations within healthcare. It could be what manufacturers are doing; it’s supply-chain. It could be with 3D printing. I think all those examples is really the third bubble you know within digital transformation but that's just at the  macro level on how you could circle and prioritize if you're an organization who is going to this transformation.

But I think if you dive deeper I sort of summarize this in five sort of core pillars of digital transformation, again these are applicable to any industry. One,  you start with the consumer you know everything you live and breathe and die by the consumer and what I mean by that is not just the fact that you want to engage the consumer, it starts with your understanding of the consumer need. You know our emotional and functional need at any given point of time and then building your ability you know to meet that need and sometimes and perhaps in the future even before she knows that she needs something.

The second aspect which is very close to something I'm really passionate about is digital transformation is driving convergence and its convenience at many levels. It’s convergence from a data standpoint, we just spoke about that because again agnostic of industry we all believe we know her as the consumer based on the data. But we really don't because our data is fragmented, either but channel you know or by online and offline. So it's how do you drive conversions so that you truly understand her as one individual as one human being. How do you bring convergence in terms of your technology ecosystem? You know we often talk about marketing technologies and how big often industry that's becoming. But the opportunity there is not so much of how many of these technologies you bring, but how well connected they are, you know is it really a connected ecosystem.

And thirdly how you drive convergence from experienced planning and you know engagement standpoint, where you just don't look at the world as digital and physical you know or digital and traditional you know. But truly believe that look it's one world that we operate in, you know call it digital or call it (fridgital? 21:17) doesn't matter but driving convergence for that standpoint. And I think there are other facets of digital transformation including the pace at which you drive innovation, because the bar you know has dramatically gone down or just doesn't exist anymore compared to back in the day. I think I strongly believe digital transformation and running business in a digital world and growing business in a digital world has redefined competition. It's created a new world of what I  call ecosystem organizations. You know from the Amazons of the world to the Ubers to the (Unclear 21:51) which are very different from let's say value chain focus organization like a Walmart. You know where for example Amazon is now partnering with Walmart to drive distribution, who would have thought because they were the biggest competitors. So I think digital transformation is redefined who your competition is and who your partnering.

And I think the last is I would say is the speed to drive change and the agility you know in your entire operating model is the core component of of winning and driving digital transformation in any organization.

Michael Krigsman:

So what does a digital business look like?

Mayur Gupta:

That's a pretty broad and in depth question. I think from my standpoint, I think a digital businesses is the one that's pretty much applying you know these five core principles; the one that is truly consumer obsessed and consumed driven. And what I mean by that is I’ll give you a very simple example of what I mean by it. You know the consumer has been the central the ecosystem for many decades, but it's only been in theory right. And the big reason is because we all are operating on a massively fragment ecosystem.

So what I mean by that is when the CMO or the CIO the CFO and the CEO all have the same you know APIs. They all have the same measure of success and they are all measured with the same bar, which means the objectives that a CIO is driving is absolutely consistent with the ones that the CMOS driving, you know or any other person within your leadership suite. I think when you do that that's when you truly become you know consumer obsessed and a converged organization. You know and obviously you know a digital organization is the one that is not going to be afraid to fail. It’s going to invest in driving innovations. It’s going to invest in becoming an actual organization that is I call it an organization that is always on, so you always listening to the consumer. You're always learning from what you're listening and then you always engaging with that consumer, again you know with an intent to give her what she needs even before she knows she needs it.

Michael Krigsman:

We are talking with Mayur Gupta, who has the role of Chief Digital Officer at Healthgrades and you can join us on Twitter. There's an ongoing twitter chat you can ask your questions at hashtag cxotalk. So Mayur you presented a framework of five points of digital transformation, now can you describe the challenges associated with becoming a digital business. It's not just marketing so maybe go beyond the hype of being a digital business into what it actually means and why is this so hard.

Mayur Gupta:

You know I think it’s two things that I would say two fundamental areas I would say why it's why it's a challenge. But it's a challenge that we're all in our own ways we’re trying to solve, again pretty much across every single industry. One, because it's a cultural and mindset shift right it's look at the people who are at the helm and not many you know have grown up in a digital infancy interesting world. It’s when my kids when they grow up they are the ones who perhaps won't even know the word digital, because you know this is the world we live in. And I think that's the mindset shift where we stopped to look at digital as a thing. Whether it is marketing or supply chain or you know or operation, it doesn't matter. I think the bottom line is we have to formally believe that a digital transformation is a necessity and digital is a world we operate in. And it's not about digital marketing or digital health you know or digital something else.

It is how do we leverage you know and learn to operate and win in this space where like I said before, where we redefined competition, we will redefine the economic model we will redefined the business model and most importantly we redefine what consumer experiences and value really meant. You know where back in the day the focus was on what's unique about my product? It was all about the economies of scale. We have shifted now towards the

Economy you know value for the consumer, and that's a massive shift. You know when the first thing you think about doing you know excepting your product idea is about the consumer behavior and the unmet needs of the consumer that you intend to fill.

I think the second fundamental reason why we are still struggling because the concept

Isn’t new like I said before, it’s just something which is inevitable , which is if you look at any ecosystem across industries you know each one of them is massively fragmented okay. If you look at healthcare for example, it’s fragmented across so many different individual components. But if you look at it from a consumer standpoint for her it's a seamless journey, you know. She expects a technology player or data player to be able to understand her behavior and predict health conditions. She seamlessly goes into you know is able to actually find the right doctor, and able to make an appointment, go see a hospital. And then the hospital physician provides or recommends the right medication you know the right drug, and she's able to prescribe to it and so on.

And then very importantly for her she's able to get you know the right financial aid and insurance coverage and so on. Right in that journey which all of us go through every single day there are five or six isolated and separated components that are absolutely disconnected, which breaks are experienced in every single time.  If you look at how in every other vertical from retail, to CPD, to finance how we really engaging in the so-called consumer engagement. It  is very channel insularly  you know you're engaging her or talking at her you know through displaying. You are talking at her to television. You're talking at her through email and so many other channels now we talking with chat bots.

The bottom line is everything that we do in our world is either isolated by channel and touch points or isolated by these different components of an industry. And where we have to go rather quickly is breaking down the silos, driving convergence at the macro level and a micro-level. Ultimately thinking about consumer value and some of the organizations like I said, like the Amazons, the Ubers and (Apner’s? 28:38)   of the world are the ones who realize it, and they are the ones who are breaking down the silos and the barriers. And hence they are able to drive much stronger you know consumer experience, better and stronger consumer value, and you know and storytelling. Ultimately that's what drives loyalty. That's what strengthens your brand affinity and maximizes the lifetime value

Michael Krigsman:

 So when we put the consumer at the center we're redefining the reference points by which we conduct our operations, by which we do marketing. By which we think about our products and how we design them and what we do. It changes the silos, the departments, and the communication across departments so truly a digital business is very far-reaching then based on the things that you're describing.

Mayur Gupta:

Yes it is and I think in a digital world we redefined you know addressability. You know you redefined the notion of who you are and how well a brand should know you right. It's no longer about knowing where you live and the fact that your first name is Michael. What is more important as do I understand your behavior. I don't need to know you. I don't need to know your first or last name, which also means that we redefine reach right. I don't have to wait to have your email address to be able to engage with you or to give you what you really need. I can listen to you from so many different aspects you know the new breed of for example, data management platforms that for the first time able to converge and match data from offline to online from first priority to second priority and third body. And you know now we all have one universal GUID that ties what you do. You know when you go into a restaurant to when you go and watch a movie, to what you’re watching at home to what you doing online to what emails you're getting, you know it's all in one place. The opportunity now is who is able to tie together and who is able to apply it you know, to solve business problems and to solve consumers unmet needs.

Michael Krigsman:

Just so everybody knows when you say a -  what was the phrase you used a single or universal GUID what you're talking about is a single tracking number so that as you visit sites the provider, the vendor knows who you are and gets a more complete picture of who you're right.

Mayur Gupta:

Absolutely I mean I can only imagine you know how many of us would have been frustrated the last time we called any 800 number and when the customer support representative ask you to fill out a form on the phone or ask you your SSN or other information and again this is it is perhaps the same brand and same organization for whom you know you probably login and go online every single day and that's what it means. I’m just giving one example on two different channels where organizations would engage with you. But imagine you know your behavior when you click on an ad and you watch the video you know and how that signal is ignored and the brand's still communicates to you as if you never did something or when you when you buy something in a retail environment and you go online you know there's no record of that, enhance you don't get your points.  So it's the breaking down of those channel silos and fundamentally understanding you as one human being and in time your behavior you know into that context of that single individual.

Michael Krigsman:

So this Omni-channel experience which is essentially to use another  buzzword. essentially what you have been describing provides a lot of benefits both to the consumer as well as to the brand, to the supplier. But I can also hear out there in the waves of the ether vibrations in the force people talking right now and thinking about privacy concerns. So how do you balance the privacy aspect against this transparency about consumer behavior aspect?

Mayur Gupta:

Yes you know regardless of who you are I’m sure each one of us is very cognizant about that and there's a very thin line in terms of how much we should know about the consumer and again we are all consumers in all lives as well, and we often you know think about that aspect. But my my philosophy is very simple one, obviously there are some outliers and you know there are some clear boundaries that you have to watch out for and I think aware of those. But at the same time I look at it from a standpoint that if as a brand we are able to create a value exchange system, where I give you something in return, a higher value, a better experience which is more convenient more effective. Then as a consumer I'm absolutely ready to share a lot more about it.

The challenge happens when organizations capture that data and they intrude into my life without adding value for me which means that if I’m in the market looking for a car, looking for Tesla and understands that and you know they understand that behavior. And now I start to get these ads about getting you know a great you know 15% off on a brand-new Tesla you know model S, the new shape; why would I mind that? You know at that point I don't mind whether you're sending me a text message or sending me a direct mail about it because is directly connected to meeting my unmet need at that point in my journey in my life and it adds value.

Michael Krigsman:

We have a very interesting intriguing question from Chris Petersen on Twitter who asks are there potential regulatory barriers to that may prevent the creating of the seamless digital ecosystems across businesses, such as antitrust regulations for example and I'm sure in healthcare with HIPAA another compliance issues there there must be many.

Mayur Gupta:

Yes there certainly are and I'm by no means an expert you know into law regulations that in all our organization we have leaders and experts who are always looking at those aspects. But again I go back to the same point, I think there are there are some very obvious areas and in healthcare perhaps a little bit more than the others where we know where the boundaries are, where know that in pharma for instance, it's very clear, you cannot market in a certain way. You cannot market about a drug you know without the disclaimer at the end, whether that's a television ad or print media or a digital lab. But I think at the same time for me there's no longer a barrier because there is so much more that could be done even within the regulations to add more value to leverage the data. You know and to start to transform the consumer experience and where we are today. And some industries the bar is so low like in healthcare, again very simply  giving the consumer the opportunity to be able to discover the right doctor based on smart quantified and qualified data is a no-brainer. There is no breach of trust anywhere. If I tell you that if you're looking for a primary care physician if you move to a new city, or you’re looking you know unfortunately let’s say ecologist because somebody in your family in a surfing to cancer. If you had a trusted place where you could find the right doctor based on that data, based on what the doctors in the last nine months. Based on the quality of care in that hospital where the doctors operating, that's a no-brainer,

Two, if I use technology in data now to give you instant access to make an appointment to that physician that's a no-brainer. This is again the application of the same principles that's transformed and created organizations and companies like Uber and Amazon, B2B now applied to two health care. If we said look we would use data to now make healthcare more accountable which means how do we drive accountability to transparency on the physician side, to bring down death but rate in this country because of medical care gone wrong.

The reason we don't control that is because people like you and I are not even aware of how many deaths actually happen because of medical care gone wrong. And you can apply the same into payer into you know how much you’re being asked to pay, you know which is a black hole till late. But as a consumer I would demand transparency especially in a world where you asking me to pay more and getting me less choices. So if you apply all those things I think data is solving a very basic human and consumer need especially in our country.

Michael Krigsman:

So we have another question from Twitter and this is from Scott Allen, Scott's a loyal listener and thank you Scott we appreciate that and Scott asks when does using customer’s big data become intrusive? When doesn't it add value, or when does or doesn't it add value to their experience.

Mayur Gupta:

You know it's I think I can rather easily answer that question if (Unclear 38:27) and say and anytime my data is leveraged to benefit me as a human being is adding value to my life, and of course in some cases I may decide not to take your help as a brand whether you're a hospital or a provider or retailer you know that that's my choice. But whether it adds value or not it has to be determined by the consumer and not buy the brand and that's the big shift, that's a big difference. But I think as long as we continue to understand that, as long as we continue understand what exactly is your unmet needs, whether that is emotional or rational or functional you know as an individual and we are making an effort to meet that need and you believe in that as a consumer, that's where you start to build that trust. That's how consumers will stop to answer that question.

But having said that, there will always be a segment you know who doesn't believe in that, which is very private. You know for example, if you are a consumer that perhaps doesn’t have a Facebook page today then I’m sure you probably are not somebody who likes to share about what you do in your like. You're not somebody who would who would like to be interrupted you know with an ad that is targeted at you. But you know both of us know and everybody I'm sure on the show knows the population that lives on Facebook and how many hours people spend on that platform which tells me that people are opening up. The community especially the Millennial the gen-x is opening up and it's open to share as long as they get something back in return and they see the value they can measure the value and once you do that you'll share more.

Michael Krigsman:

So the question of value exchange therefore comes back to what kind of information is being requested, what is being offered in return, does the consumer have given their okay with it. They accepted this exchange, and is this being done for the benefit of the consumer or strictly for the benefit of the brand.

Mayur Gupta:

Yes absolutely, absolutely and it's a journey right that's why you will hear many brands aren’t  thinking just about acquisition anymore you know, it's all about lifetime value management. Because we all know if the cost of acquisition is high, the cost of retention and loyalty is even higher or it’s invaluable. And unless we bring that mindset shift to think about you know the value of the experience we drive from a consumer standpoint will continue to fail.

Michael Krigsman:

So we have less than five minutes left and we're talking with Mayur Gupta, who is the Chief Digital Officer for Healthgrades. So in that five minutes I want to ask your advice Mayur. So number one, share with us advice for how to be a better healthcare consumer. What can we do to get better healthcare.

Mayur Gupta:

That's a great question because I'm glad you asked as a healthcare consumer because I’m still learning but my experience at Healthgrades is helping me. I think what I would say is you know to be quite honest as a healthcare consumer, first and foremost is all of us need to start owning our own help. You know and not leave it to the provider, to the hospital, to somebody else. I think and we've all seen in other aspects of our lives in how we shop and we raise our kids, how we educate them. You know how we travel, that technology and this digital revolution that we’re all going through in our lives and it's not just for business. It's you know we live in a digital life now and we can't run away from it. For many of you, I'm sure the smartphone is now an extension of your body and it's not just the device anymore.

I think if you're operating and living in that world we have to raise the bar in terms of our health and wellness and own it, and challenge the status quo, challenge the ecosystem. Demand for that same level of information, choice, and control that we have demanded when you're searching for you know for an airline ticket, when shopping for a refrigerator. You know  an average American spends you know almost 10 days on an average to to search for a car and we spend less than 10 minutes to search for the right doctor. That's the mindset shift we have to bring and we have to shift from blaming the system, to taking ownership for our own health and for families.

Michael Krigsman:

So take responsibility for your own health care.

Mayur Gupta:

Yes because when we do that and we as consumers become the protagonist and the system will continue evolve to make it a reality. And I think we now have the infrastructure, we now have the technology, we now have data, and we have not proven it in other aspects of life. There is no reason why it could not be replicated to solve the healthcare deficit you know in our country and know all around the world.

Michael Krigsman:

And finally before we go, what advice do you have for people working in companies or for organizations that are facing these kinds of massive changes around them, and they have no choice, they have to dive in, but they don't know what to do and they're looking at it and it's hard, it's daunting. What advice do you have for these people?

Mayur Gupta:

I think two things and this is again this is something that I've learned through my career and continue to learn. First and foremost, is break down those silos. Connect the dots, drive convergence in every single aspect of your business. Whether that is how you organized, how you’re structured, the kind of talent to bring in. How you look at data, how you look at technology. It doesn't matter what vertical it is, but just drive convergence.

We living in a world that is all about ecosystems and platforms not about silo products, silo technologies, silo experiences. And I think the best way to think about it is from a consumer standpoint she does not see the silos you know. She does not see a channel. All she expects is the best experience, the best service, the best product, at the best price. You know at a location in touchpoint at a time of her own choice. And the only way we as brands and technologists and marketers can make that happen is when we break down those silos and we drive conversions in our own world and we stopped looking at digital as the thing, because we now live, operate and breathe in an intrinsically digital world.

Michael Krigsman:

I love that, digital is not a thing. And with that it's time to draw episode number 187 of CXOTalk to a close. We've been talking with Mayur Gupta, who is the Chief Digital Officer of Healthgrades and Mayur thank you so much again for for joining us and taking time today.

Mayur Gupta:

Thank you so much Michael it was a lot of fun thank you.

Michael Krigsman:

And everybody thank you for watching, come back next Friday we have great shows go to cxotalk dot com to see all of our upcoming episodes and thank you to Livestream for their great support of CXOTalk. Thanks so much everybody bye-bye.