The Branding Manifesto:
Choose Your Enemy, Win the War

Introduction to Strategic Branding and Positioning

Michael Krigsman: How do you build a brand that stands out in a crowded market, and how do great brands become leaders?

Michael Krigsman: Today, on CXOTalk number 893, we talk with Laura Ries, one of the world's top branding experts and author of the new book, Strategic Enemy. Laura explains how to choose an enemy, simplify your message, and create symbols that tell your brand's story. I'm your host, Michael Krigsman. Let's get into it.

Laura Ries: My father was legendary positioning pioneer, Al Ries, and so, from the very beginning, I learned about positioning at the dinner table. So it's been my family business, my personal mission to talk about and work with companies on positioning strategy.

Michael Krigsman: Laura, you just are publishing now, I think it's coming out this week, a book called The Strategic Enemy on branding. Tell us about your book.

The Power of a Strategic Enemy in Branding

Laura Ries: Owning a word in the mind. That is what positioning was all about. But that's a big challenge of how to do that. So, we've developed over the years several things like the visual hammer, another one of my concepts. But it occurred to me, in working with clients, how do we best get them to focus their positioning, and how do we get it into the mind of the consumer?

And I realized that if you can provide that contrast, so a strategic enemy is an oppositional force that your brand stands against. And when you clearly communicate what you're against, it actually is more easy for people to understand what you stand for, and why you see Chick-fil-A, what have they been doing for 30 years? They have cows that say, "Eat more chicken." Strongly positioning against that enemy to get people to understand that they are the place, the original, the pioneer of the fried chicken sandwich, and building and strengthening that category and position in the mind of the consumer.

Michael Krigsman: Why is this so important?

Laura Ries: If you want people to remember you, if you want people to choose your brand, talk about your brand, all of these things comes down to the brand and the positioning of it. And what is branding? It started with the cattle. You wanted to stand out from everyone else in the world. And we live in an over-communicated society. We've got too many brands, too many messages.

So, branding and positioning, in particular, is how you stand out, and it comes down to being different, having a focus, and then if you can clearly communicate and contrast to a strategic enemy, it can make you even more memorable and get people really excited to be part of your movement, to make your brand a brand worth fighting for.

Michael Krigsman: Having a strategic enemy, it's so important. You titled your book this way. So, tell us about that.

Laura Ries: We work with a lot of companies, but also study a lot of company histories, and it's incredibly important to not just look what they're doing today, but how did they build those brands? What did they do specifically in their strategy? And when I looked at that, it was many times, the most successful ones did use that strategic enemy, that oppositional force.

What did Salesforce do? Today, tremendously successful CRM cloud. Initially, the messaging was all about no software. It was what they were not. The power of no is incredibly important, so that was the whole campaign. The end of software. They first had to downplay the enemy before they could take over the position.

Or one of my favorite examples, Dude Wipes. They focused in on wet toilet paper, specifically for dudes, to clean up in the bathroom, and they've taken on the big toilet papers. It was that narrow focus that allowed them to say, "The end of toilet paper." "Send toilet paper to the Stone Ages." You can't have an enemy if you don't have a focus, so that's a really big part of it.

Michael Krigsman: Years ago, I spent a lot of time with Salesforce as an industry analyst, and I used to go to lots of their events. I still do.

Laura Ries: Yeah.

Michael Krigsman: And that no software logo that they had with the big red line through it, that did clearly define what they were and what they were not.

Laura Ries: It's a line in the sand, and not very many companies are willing to do that. They want to appeal to everyone. They wanna sell to everyone. When in fact, if you can do that, draw that line, it makes your position stronger and allows you to have that enemy that you can go up against.

And for sales at the time of cloud, everyone was kind of adding it on as a small thing. The big opportunity is to put everything into it, exactly what Salesforce did. And that iconic visual of not only talking about the strategy, verbalizing it, but visualizing, that's what I call a visual hammer. And that visuals are more emotional. They're more memorable. They're more repeatable, and that will intensify your positioning power.

And even on the other end, you see where MD Anderson, in their cancer center logo, they cross out the word "cancer." How powerful is that to visualize their strategy, their focus on cancer, and ending cancer, making cancer history?

Michael Krigsman: So, you have really, correct me if I'm wrong, an entire kind of multisensory system. I remember Marc Benioff, at that time, talking about Microsoft, and talking about Oracle, and he would talk about these companies as being almost like the great Satans.

Laura Ries: Oh, he was very strong in his language. They used to protest Oracle events and have picket signs, and he really took it to the extreme. And absolutely, in certain situations, you can do that. Liquid Death taking on plastic bottles, ruining the environment, or Patagonia taking on, "Don't buy this jacket." But it can also be subtly done.

Subaru, for example, they were losing money. They were making two-wheel drive and four-wheel drive cars. They got rid of the two-wheel. They were the pioneer in all-wheel or four-wheel drive vehicles, but by focusing on it, it made it even more important, and allowed them to position and own the car for the outdoors type of people, adventure seekers, and that was really very strong. They never had picket signs that two-wheel cars weren't cool, but it was that strategy.

And internally, as a company, it is incredibly important to have that enemy mindset. What are we not? Who are we going up against? How are we stronger because we stand for something, and we're very clear on not just what we are, but what we're not, and what we won't do, and where we won't go with it?

Michael Krigsman: It's so hard to do that.

Laura Ries: Of course it is. Nobody ever said it was easy. It's easy to read the book, but at the very last chapter, I say, "I know it's hard." It's gonna take courage. It's gonna take sacrifice. But that's what makes great entrepreneurs. And unfortunately, the big ideas and brands are not being built by the big companies, 'cause it's very hard in those companies to do this. And the opportunity for entrepreneurs to do this is tremendous and very exciting to see.

Challenges and Context in Branding Strategies

Michael Krigsman: We have a question from LinkedIn, and let me just mention to everybody that you should take advantage of this opportunity to ask Laura Rees pretty much whatever you want, so take advantage of it. If you're watching on LinkedIn, type your questions into the LinkedIn chat. If you're watching on Twitter/X, use the hashtag #CXOTalk.

So, Steve Conway says this on LinkedIn. He thinks, "The enemy strategy depends." And he says, "A known computer company that he worked for got beaten to the punch on an important new technology, and first tried to brand against it, then realized it was the future, began developing a product based on it, and applauded the new technology. A year later, the company he worked for knocked the competitors out of the market." He said, "The enemy marketing stance isn't always appropriate."

Laura Ries: All of these things, you have to put it into the context of the situation. But here's the thing. One of the most important principles in marketing is being first in something, and standing for that, not just in the marketplace but in the mind of the consumer. So, in many of these cases, whether you're first out there, unless you've made it into the mind, it's not gonna be powerful.

The other thing is the importance of the category itself, and that is incredibly important because consumers care more about categories than they do about brands. Brands are the way you verbalize the category. So, depending on what your brand is, what does it stand for right now? That is going to say a lot about the enemies you can go up against because what you stand for is not going to be easily changed.

Think back to Kodak. They stood for film photography. They were first with the first digital camera, but what did they do? They called it a Kodak, and that didn't work with the mind. The mind rejected that. So, even though they had the advantage of being first, they went out there. They could have had the greatest positioning ever, but with that name, it was an incredible challenge that they were not able to overcome and went bust because of it. So, all these things have to be taken into consideration.

Michael Krigsman: Subscribe to the CXOTalk newsletter so we can notify you about upcoming shows. Our shows are live, and you can ask questions of the guest. We have amazing guests coming up. So, go to cxotalk.com, check it out. We have another really interesting question coming on Twitter, on X, from Arsalan Khan.

Laura Ries: We still call it Twitter, don't we? Because that was such a better name with a visual.

Michael Krigsman: You know what? Yes, and you talk about that in your book with the little bird, the little blue bird, and now X. It's like...

Laura Ries: How do you visualize X? When you have something, why would you get rid of it? You go back to Jaguar, trying to get rid of the cat, or Cracker Barrel trying to get rid of the barrel. When your name is so iconically connected to a visual or Tropicana, for a time, they got rid of the straw and the orange. Consumers revolted. It was crazy. The same way they did with Cracker Barrel. Those are very strong emotional connections, and when you have it, you should savor it and definitely not get rid of it.

The Link Between Branding and Customer Experience

Laura Ries: So, go back to the question from Twitter.

Michael Krigsman: I could easily pull on about a dozen threads that you just raised, but let's go back to Arsalan Khan's question. He says this is a good question. He says, "What is the link between branding and customer experience? What happens to branding when customer experience is lackluster?"

Laura Ries: Brand is more than a logo. It's more than just a visual hammer. It's more than your slogan. It's everything, and what you need to do is find what your focus is, what your position is, and have it then apply and work across all those different areas, from the customer experience to everything.

So but the first thing is, what do we want to stand for? And in customer experience, sometimes it can be very high touch, or it can be very hands-off and self-service. There's no one right answer. There's no right position. And in fact, any position, the opposite can be just as true, and it should be.

You have Walmart, that is the greatest retailer ever, low prices, but there's also a position to go against that, and that's exactly what Target did. At Target, it's we call it Targét. It's a little bit more chic. It's the same stuff, about the same price, but it has a design-oriented focus. And unfortunately, they, in recent years, lost sight of that, and you can never forget what that differentiation of your brand is.

I call it the anchor of what your brand stands for. You've got to strengthen it. You've got to reinforce it, and you've got to make that customer experience match in with whatever your strategy is. So, it's incredibly all, build on each other. All these things together are all the tools that build an incredibly powerful brand.

Michael Krigsman: But there are situations when a company has a very, very strong and very believable brand, but as Arsalan Khan was getting to, the actual experience or the product fall short, and then you come away thinking, "Well, this is a lie. This impression, this brand is not true."

Laura Ries: You can't just win by having a better advertising message or slogan. You actually have to deliver on a product. But here's the thing, it all comes down to the perception is key. Now, when you have a bad experience with a company you love, a one-off situation, you're like, "Oh, they must've just had a bad day." You're having a bad experience with a brand you don't have a strong favorable perception of, you say, "See? I knew they sucked."

So but overall, if your car drives off the lot, and every car, the wheels fall off, you're not gonna be successful. I don't care how strong the positioning was. You do have to have but there is think back to Tesla. Early on, there were some problems, and there were some difficulties, but the brand strongly worked with those consumers, and they strongly made the product better and better and better, and the experience and all of these things. You have to constantly keep that, keep up with that, to make sure that they do align, and you do, and you are reinforcing your strategy throughout the whole system.

Strategic Positioning and Differentiation

Michael Krigsman: Can you describe the nuts and bolts of identifying the right strategic enemy?

Laura Ries: One of the greatest ways to do it, and we talk about this for years in positioning, is the opportunity to be first and create a new category that you can be first in. That's one of the most powerful things to do. Now, when you are pioneering a new category, that will instantly make the old category the enemy, and that's a very good and strong dynamic you can do.

What did iPhone do? Now, when you create a category, the category name, the brand, all of these things are incredibly important. iPhone said it wasn't just another phone that had advanced features. It says, "No, no, we are the first smartphone." What a great category name. 'Cause what did that instantly do to Nokia, the world leader in cell phones? It repositioned them as a dumb phone. And so, that was a classic strategy of using this type of thinking.

And before that, another example is the iPod itself. When Steve Jobs came back to Apple, one of the great things he did, but the brand that really brought back the company, was the iPod. Now, this was a revolutionary idea, and it was going up against what everyone else was doing. Everyone else at the time, it was these cheap flash drive players. The Rio? Everybody was using these. They were cheap, they were great. They were super convenient.

But he said, "No, no, I think there's an opportunity to be the opposite, a hard drive player." More expensive, it could also hold more songs. But it was the idea of positioning it as the hard drive, but also oversimplifying the communication strategy of it. So you had the iPod, and the strategy was "A thousand songs in your pocket." Wow, what a way to make it memorable, make it simple.

And then, of course, you had the white earbuds, which clearly defined it in the market to have great visibility. Now, here's the thing. Are white earbuds better? No. They get dirty. Everyone else had black wires 'cause they're invisible and they don't get dirt. You don't see the dirt. But it is about being different, about standing out, and that takes courage. But that's how you're really gonna build a brand and make a difference.

So, finding a way to be a new category that you can go up against or a way to differentiate if you're within a category. How can you narrow the focus and differentiate from the leader and the other players?

Look at online dating. Not that I'm there. I'm married. But Match.com, they were the first online dating. So, how do you compete against that? You gonna be better? Are you gonna have better pricing? Those are usually that's not a way to find a strategic enemy and to build a brand.

The ones that competed strongly against it narrowed the focus. So, Tinder was for hooking up. And then, what did an ex-VP of Tinder do? She said, "You know, women don't like being swiped right on, on the Tinder, and they actually want a date. They don't wanna hook up." And so she launched a new brand called Bumble. And at Bumble, women make the first move. And so that was the site that women had the power, and a very powerful way to build their position and strongly identify who the enemy was.

Michael Krigsman: So you need to really understand your customer, then, in order to find some attribute, something that's lacking in the existing set of products in order to then do that thing better, differently. And then you can define all of that as the enemy. Is that a correct way to look at it?

Laura Ries: It's one of the ways to look at it. So it could be an absolutely a pain point out there that people are experiencing, like I said, with women and the dating sites. And Bumble took advantage of that, built a strong brand against that.

But sometimes people don't know. Look at Farmer's Dog and what they did. Listen, I've been feeding my dog very expensive dry food for years. I thought that was the best thing to do. That's what my vet said. That's what I read, I thought, online, in magazines, et cetera, until Farmer's Dog came along.

And they told me they positioned dry dog food as burnt brown balls over highly processed food, and said, "You know you shouldn't eat highly processed food for every meal of the day. It's not healthy. Why would you do that to your dog? It's gonna shorten your dog's life." And so they were able to not really even take something people necessarily knew, but they positioned it in a very strong way to clearly make the contrast between dry dog food and using FreshPet, which is human-grade food for dogs.

The Power of Contrast in Branding

Michael Krigsman: Defining the strategic enemy and being different are kind of two sides of the same coin in a way.

Laura Ries: See, the mind understands contrast faster than it does superiority. Many companies are out there just saying, "We're better," and they might believe that, and maybe they are better, but the best way to communicate that you're better is actually to show a contrast of how you're different, of what everyone makes choices. There's always alternatives out there, and so to show that contrast is a trick for the mind.

We understand hot by knowing cold. We understand summer by knowing winter. It's these contrasts that bring the clarity of the situation. So the same way is true in branding. And it's important then to have that focus and then be visually different. If you think about the first Prius out there, it looked different. It didn't try to look like everyone. So having not just the focus but having the visual difference will definitely help you show visibly that contrast as well as the branding.

Michael Krigsman: We have another really interesting question, again from Arsalan Khan coming on Twitter, who says this. He's talking about IT departments and we all know IT departments very often don't have the best reputation.

Laura Ries: No.

The Role of Branding in IT and Organizational Alignment

Michael Krigsman: And so he says this. "Looking inwards," I guess inward to the company, "does IT need branding and marketing inside the organization so that they are not considered just as obstacles or order takers?" And he goes on, "Is lack of branding the cause of organizational misalignment?" But I think really the main thing here is, is the problem with IT the brand?

Laura Ries: Many times, companies wanna say all the things they do, or even a department, all the great things they do, but if you can focus in on one thing. One thing that will be memorable, that will stand you apart, and I go back to other examples so everyone can understand, but think about what did BMW do?

Initially when they came into the market, they talked about everything. The fuel mileage, the looks, the cars, everything. But that didn't build the brand. They were 17th in imported cars into America until they focused on one thing, and that was driving. And driving instantly set up an enemy, because who was the enemy? The leader, of course, was Mercedes-Benz. Mercedes are comfortable, and BMW said, "We're the ultimate driving machine versus the ultimate sitting machine."

What a powerful way now to talk about the difference that they had, the difference that they offer that might not be for everybody. Listen, it would take these things are they take a lot of time to think about, and so and IT, I help a nonprofit in the IT department. We're incredibly important, and you have to think about, the speed of response, the way you respond. There's lots of ways to visualize the people sometimes. To put faces to individuals is incredibly important, to make that human connection and to show that you're real. It's not just a bot.

Perception, Leadership, and Differentiation in Branding

Michael Krigsman: Is the core here the product definition? Which I'm thinking maybe not, because you described better product is not always best when it comes to branding. So is the core the product, or is the core the presentation, the communication, and perception of that product?

Laura Ries: It's all about perception. The reality in some ways doesn't matter. It is the perception that overrides it, if you will. And that's why leadership is the most powerful position you can own, because leadership leads to a perception that your product is better. For some reason, we believe the leader is better, because otherwise, why would that's why they're the leader. They must be better.

And unfortunately, when you tell people when you're not the leader and you say, "Oh, we're better than the leader," people say, "Well, that can't be true. If it was, you would be the leader." That's the roundabout logic that goes around in the marketplace.

So instead of when you're going up against, say, a leader, instead of show how you're different, how does that difference then connect to making you better? It sets up the conversation, so you're not just when you say you're better, it's what you're saying about yourself. That's not believable. The only thing that's believable is what other people say. And if you can arm them with not just, "This is better than that," but why it's better.

Look in the electronic toothbrush war. We've got Oral-B. And we got Sonicare. Now, Sonicare was first. They pioneered the category. They're the dominant leader. How does Oral-B go up against them and compete? By statistics and better this, better that? They had a visual difference. Their toothbrush head is round. In Sonicare's, it looks like a regular toothbrush.

And that's a powerful position and one they actually should leverage more, because when I talked to my dental hygienist to try to ask her, "Which should I use?" I was doing a little customer research there. She said, "Well, they're both good to clean your teeth," but then she added, "Well, I do like the Oral-B, 'cause you see that round brush is just like the tools I use here at the dentist office. It's the more professional head." That's a powerful position, and that's a way to differentiate both visually and strategically from a very strong leader in the category.

Michael Krigsman: So you need to latch onto some attribute, define some really some attribute that will be really crucial, or you can explain is very crucial to

Laura Ries: An indisputable difference, I like to say. Something that is so clearly obvious it can be seen. Round versus oval. You can't dispute that. Farmer's dog it's fresh food. It's not disputable whether this is fresh and that is processed. Those very clear distinctions.

Michael Krigsman: The challenge, I think, for many organizations is to accomplish this requires working across the organization because you have marketing, but this also feeds into product development, right? Because it marketing that then tells the product folks, "Well, you need to change this or change that if you want the marketing to be successful."

Strategic Focus and the Power of Defining a Brand

Laura Ries: No, absolutely. I think Subaru is a very good example because, one of the greatest comebacks in automotive history as a matter of fact. They were floundering when they were trying to sell and make and position two-wheel drive and four-wheel drive. And here's the thing, that made sense in the market, and that's the trick to understand.

In the market, you look at the United States. At the north, we've got snow and ice, and you need four-wheel drive is almost necessary. I live here in Atlanta. It snows once every 10 years. We don't really need it. And so, the company figured, "Well, we'll sell 'em the less expensive two-wheel drive," and, but then you don't where's the message? Where's the strength? Where's the focus? Where's the enemy?

And so when the executive came in, the business was 48% four-wheel drive and 52% two-wheel drive. He got out of half of the business. Unbelievable amount of courage. But that allowed them, the entire organization, to double down on four-wheel. And they didn't stop there. They also then went and developed more products in that four-wheel drive, and they came out with the very hot-selling Outback and other models that really showcased and visualized a four-wheel drive car in a new, imaginative way.

So it really does, I think, open up opportunities. Many people think having a focus or being locked in or going against an enemy means restriction. It doesn't. It actually can open up other ideas and things that you can go into and expand on and make these more important, the way Volvo went in, all in on safety.

We like to say they fired the car designers. It looked like a tank. That was part of the strategy that safe cars shouldn't look dangerous. And one of the mistakes they made is they did try to expand for a while there. They were making, a Volvo convertible. Those are strategic missteps. You make yourself your own worst enemy when you do that.

Michael Krigsman: So this definition is really the core because that defines, "We do this, and it's special for X,Y,Z reason. And we don't do that, which is what everybody else does, because that's inferior to this thing that we're doing."

Laura Ries: I hope it's the category itself. Once you've established that, you're trying to gain interest in the category. And interest in cars now, here in Atlanta, while we don't need four-wheel drive, Outbacks are everywhere, because people were enthralled with the brand, with the excitement, with the four-wheel drive, as well as with the connection to be an adventure-seeker, an outdoor enthusiast, all these other great ideas that they've packed in, and the brand and car really represent that. So an incredibly important part of it.

The Power of Repetition in Branding

Michael Krigsman: Now, you talk a lot about repetition. Tell us about that.

Laura Ries: You say one thing. The more you repeat something, the more believable it is. The power of the ultimate driving machine, of saying this for decades and decades and decades. Or Skittles, "Taste the rainbow," or Kit Kat, "Have a break," or, "Just do it" in Nike. It is the repetition of the idea that makes it more powerful and memorable.

So, most companies are changing their slogans, changing their ideas all the time. Now, yes, you can change until you lock in onto that core key idea that best communicates, solidifies your strategy, and then it's repeat, repeat, repeat.

The problem is, for a company and even a person, that's really boring. And unfortunately, when a new executive comes in, they're trying to make their mark. So they think, "Oh, I'm gonna hire a new agency. We're gonna have a new campaign." That often doesn't lead to success for the company. It might make you well-known, but for the company, it is solidifying that strategy and keeping weight on that anchor, not for weeks, not for months, but for decades, and that's really successful.

Michael Krigsman: And then you tie that to simplicity.

Laura Ries: Simplicity is the core of a positioning and even the strategic enemy. You've got to make it simple and clear. There's too many messages out there. You don't have time to tell a whole story. Now, is a whole story great for your brand? Absolutely. Your customers should know it. Your employees should know it, your avid fans.

But you've got a couple seconds to make an impression. How are you gonna do it? What's the visual? What's the message? What's the word that we're gonna be? What's our category that we're gonna stand for and get people excited about?

People get excited about the category. It's not the brand Tesla. It was because they pioneered electric vehicles. It's not the Red Bull brand. It's that they pioneered energy drinks. And so getting success and excitement in that category is essential.

Specialization and Category Leadership

Michael Krigsman: What about smaller companies? To build a category can take a lot of resources.

Laura Ries: Well, it can, but it's also a better strategy. Well, for a small company, you're probably not going to be able to launch multiple brands, but you can always find a way to be different. And many times, the big companies that you're going up against, they're into everything.

So by narrowing the focus, becoming a specialist in something listen, specialist is, that's a powerful psychological trick. You want brain surgery, you gonna go to your general practitioner or your brain surgeon? That specialist is seen as being better, by definition as being a specialist. So there's tremendous opportunities for companies to do that. And as that specialty grows, so will your brand dominance.

And here's the other thing that's really important to remember, is that being focused on a category, on an idea, doesn't limit a company because companies can launch multiple brands. One of my favorite examples is Mike's Hard Lemonade. They went up against beer. Kids were not wanting to drink beer. They wanted other alcoholic alternatives. So, there was hard lemonade, there was hard iced tea. And Mike was a big, big success in the early 2000s.

But then what happened? Well, we all realized how many calories and specifically sugar were in those things. And that was a problem as people were looking to cut carbs and all of these things. So, what do you do then as a company? Well, you could have launched multiple line extensions like many companies would do, but not Mike's Hard Lemonade.

While they did a little of that, they did something even more powerful. They said, "What if we created a new brand that would really take advantage and go up against all the carbs and calories and things in all the other products?" And they did. They called it a hard seltzer, and it was called White Claw, a new brand that pioneered this new category in the mind.

The name is important 'cause listen, it was not the first brand on the market. Spiked seltzer was, but that's not a brand name, that's a category name. And it really had trouble than being seen as an uppercase in the mind. The mind is all sounds. And it also, it came in glass, it came in cans. White Claw only came in cans, and they had a very strong strategy of appealing to both men and women of group hangs, and being for outdoors. You can't take glass to the beach, so White Claw very strongly positioned that as being different from even the other initially other brands in that category. And they became the leader, of course. They're a dominant, dominant brand.

Visual Hammers and Minimalistic Branding

Michael Krigsman: Another question from Twitter, again, from Arsalan, who says, "Is branding headed towards minimalistic design and messaging?"

Laura Ries: In some ways, here's the thing. Your key criteria well, first of all, if you have a brand that is well-established in the mind, messing with it too much, making radical changes is gonna be very distracting to your customers. Look what Pepsi has done over the years by making these many, in times, radical changes to the logo. And they've finally kind of gone back to the original, the one iconic image that was strongly most remembered by people. And I think that really does set it apart in the marketplace.

So, if you do have something strong, not changing it too much, but I do think that many things, the simplicity of the strategy, making something clear, but that's not to say that every brand should do that. Because one of the key criteria is in your category being different than your competitors. So, if they're super modern and simple and sleek, maybe your best strategy is to be more elegant or more have more design in it.

So, really, it depends on the situation, but in general, I do think many companies are simplifying their packaging just so that it can be better seen and visibility out there, which is just some cases, you couldn't previously even read the name of the product on the package. And so making that front and center, having a visual hammer, all of those are incredibly and I love to see that happening.

Michael Krigsman: And we have another question from Twitter, and this is from Lisbeth Shaw, who says, "Regarding the positives of repetition, with repetition, some people are fearful that the message will become boring. How should organizations address that desire to be innovative against your advice to be repetitive?"

Laura Ries: It can sound boring within the company itself, because remember, you're going to this company every day, you're talking about this company every day, you're looking at their stuff every day. But think out in the world. Most consumers are not interacting with it every day. And so, the more it can be visually recognizable and so that it's seen and it hammers in and repeats what you know about the brand, that's tremendously powerful.

But there is one thing I will add to that, is that, yeah, I think words can become too repetitive, and that's why actually the visual hammer can be so powerful. Because if you think about two great examples, Target. Using the words "Target" and their slogan can be a lot of words, but the image of the Target logo, I don't think people have as much problem with seeing it. It's beautiful, it's attractive, and I think people are more willing to have it. The bags have the Target logo all over it. If it had the words, I think it would be much more off-putting.

Another one is Coca-Cola. Their use of their iconic contour bottle. They put that on everything. On trucks, on billboards, on their marketing, on their websites. It's a powerful visual that also communicates their very strong strategic idea and positioning of being the pioneer, being the real thing in cola. So again, I think if they said "real thing" over and over, saying it occasionally is good, but using that visual even more is very good.

Michael Krigsman: So, the visual hammer, then, is a kind of symbol that presents, represents your brand.

Laura Ries: In the ideal world, it visualizes your positioning strategy, so it's not just a graphic. But it's a way to visualize that strategy. Now, that said, in some cases, the visual hammer is just a visualization of your name. And in fact, if you pick a name that can be visualized, that's a very strong strategic move.

The other thing is, if you are the very strong and clear pioneer in a category, any visual that you create and use with repetition will be, can become a strong visual hammer. So, you think about Nike and the swoosh. The swoosh doesn't really communicate anything but it's a very simple visual that is easy to see, and they've used it for decades, and has become to symbolize Nike and its leadership position.

The same with Mercedes-Benz and the Tri-Star. And in that case, they did simplify the logo. They've always had the Tri-Star, but it used to be more ornate, and that oversimplified version, much easier to see on the cars. And that's incredibly important. So, using that and thinking about it.

Or, for example, Tiffany's. What did Tiffany do? Well, many people don't know, but they pioneered the raised prong engagement ring. Before Tiffany's, everything was bezel set, and now, that was safer. You don't want to lose that diamond ring, but they engineered and found a way to make it super safe, and that made the ring pop. But they just didn't do that. They also sold those rings in a blue box, that beautiful egg blue Pantone color that they've established, and that has become the iconic visual hammer of Tiffany's.

Michael Krigsman: So, it's not just a logo image.

Laura Ries: No.

The Power of Visual Hammers in Branding

Laura Ries: Sometimes it can be within the logo, or you put it in the logo. Red Hat used a red hat image within the logo. But it could be a product. It could be a package. It could be a person. For many years, Papa John's used John Schnatter as their visual hammer for the brand. Or, you've got KFC. What? Colonel Sanders. He's the visual hammer. Even when they've passed, they've been able to keep his legacy by using his iconic image as the visual for their chicken chain.

Michael Krigsman: How long does it take for the visual hammer to take hold? If you're a startup, for example, and you start out the gate with a visual hammer with some iconic image

Laura Ries: Yeah

Michael Krigsman: the audience doesn't know, the market doesn't know who, what that is, so how long does it take to have meaning?

Laura Ries: It should be instantly understandable about what it is. So, for example, when Corona put the lime in the top of the bottle of beer, lime was associated with Mexico. See, in the US, we do lemons on everything. Lemonade. In Mexico, everything, if you've been down there, they use lime on everything. So, it was very symbolic of Mexico, and of course, it was a Mexican imported beer. They first went into Mexican restaurants, and then they communicated this is the cool way to drink beer in Mexico. And so all of those things worked together.

But here's the thing. How long does it take? It depends on the interest and the category. How often you're buying it? How much people are talking about it? How much PR you get for it? And so all that is very dependent on the interest, but so it's keeping the courage.

And here's the thing. You know if it's resonating by interacting with consumers, by showing it to them, seeing if they get it, what their reactions are. If they're and if they're willing to talk about it, and will they repeat it? Your message needs to be repeatable.

Now, I've talked you talk to BMW lovers and drivers. They love the ultimate driving machine. They can talk about why they prefer the brand, because it's the driving machine. The same with Tesla. Initially, being the EV focus, and people and consumers were very passionate about being Tesla fans. And in some ways, Elon is distracted from the message of the EV car with all of his stuff, but he was, in fact, a very good spokesperson.

And the car itself, here's another interesting thing that I love to talk about. Those door handles. They're not better. It's very difficult to get in those, and they freeze in the winter, but they're very different. They're very distinctive. It makes remembering that this is a Tesla I'm getting into every time I push one of those things. So, that being different is so incredibly important. Even sometimes when it might not necessarily be better.

Michael Krigsman: So, it's the emotional hook. There's an emotional component that you look at this. You associate this visual hammer with the emotion that the brand is trying to create.

Laura Ries: You use a visual because visuals are much more emotional than words. Look at reading a book versus watching maybe the same story in a movie. People will cry in a movie the same story, when you see the images, it brings out the emotion. Very few people cry when they read the book.

And so if you can do that with your brand, if you can visualize it, and that will instantly bring the emotional side into it and also make it more memorable and make it more distinctive out there in the world. And also, really visualize, again, that strategic enemy.

Strategic Branding for Companies and Products

Laura Ries: I love again, the Chick-fil-A example with the cows saying, "Eat more chicken." The problem is very few companies they're into too many things. How are they gonna find an enemy? They're not willing to do the work and sacrifice.

I worked with a small company. They were into software development. They were called Southworks. I thought that was a great name, but they actually didn't even bother to tell people they tried to present themselves as a big global company. But in fact, when talking to them, I was like, "Well, all of your developers are in South America. That's something different. That's unique."

And do people think this better right now? Well, no, but we've got to do then the story and use the PR to show how South America is taking off as a great develop, software development hub. And so, when working with them, I said, "We gotta visualize this." Not just you can say about the South American focus of where the developers are, but we added the iconic South American map to the logo.

And then we found a focus. So, well, what makes the problem with the others? What are we not doing? Where are the nos? And it was this was software development on demand. There's no contract. There's no long-term contracts with us. It's on demand anytime. You can ramp it up, you can ramp it down. And of course, the time zone affinity of not being in Europe, in Asia, that are many, many time zones ahead or behind.

Michael Krigsman: Laura, you mention now software. Many listeners of CXOTalk are involved with software companies, technology companies, AI companies. These are non-tangible things. How can these folks, people, people in technology, think about branding and the strategic enemy and so on?

Laura Ries: I just showed my example of working with a development firm. Being able to kind of visualize the strategy is important. So, you have to take something that's a service and find a way to visualize it. If you can use words. Development on demand was a good way to hook in, 'cause people know what on demand is, and now this is development on demand. So you hook into what the mind knows, and bringing in what your new category idea is, using words that can be visualized is incredibly helpful.

Michael Krigsman: And of course, as you were describing earlier with salesforce.com, they latched onto this "no software."

Laura Ries: Yeah, and you can also think about, say, Red Hat. So, they were open source. But they gave themselves a name that could be visualized, so that was a very helpful part of the strategy. And what does a red hat have to do with it? But it's different. It stands out. And so it was the being first, pioneering the category, dominating that category, and having a way to visualize it.

Or, you think about a name like Robinhood, of a way to go against for the individual traders, and Robinhood is a great way and a great name that lends itself to an idea to connect in of what you're trying to accomplish, and a name that can be visualized. With a color, too. Green.

Building Personal and Leadership Brands

Michael Krigsman: Now, what about branding for individuals creating a personal brand? Many of the people who watch CXOTalk are senior business leaders, technology leaders, and many of them want to build their personal brand, so they go onto LinkedIn and they write and they respond. So, what can individuals do to build a personal brand?

Laura Ries: They have to think about what their focus is. What do they want to be the expert in? Yeah, many people are good at a lot of things, but, like, for me, I talk. Positioning is my anchor. That's my thing. I also then visualize it. As a matter of fact, I always wear red. A way to stand out and be visually memorable, but if you think about your brand, what is it? What am I the very best at? How can I distinguish myself?

And then have a point of view when I'm making comments. Whatever angle that is, to have the repetition of that's where your strength is. Now, of course the people that know you will know you have a great breadth, but how are you gonna stand out out there? It is about having that singular focus.

And the other thing is, strong companies today also need leaders that are memorable. And having a leader that can best articulate the company's position, as well as keeping the company focused. NVIDIA is a whole chapter in my book because they've done such a great job with positioning, with focus, with going up against multiple strategic enemies over the years, and always finding a way to do the opposite, to be different, and then having a leader like Jensen Huang, who what does he do?

For only 20 years, he's wearing that black leather jacket. Now, it's not the jacket that makes him cool. It's the success of NVIDIA, and then him and the jacket is what symbolizes it. Like Steve Jobs and the black turtleneck. The black turtleneck isn't what did it. It was Steve Jobs and what he did at Apple, and then that look is what represented it.

Now, you can't put on the Theranos girl, she tried to put on a black turtleneck to show everyone she was innovative. It doesn't work that way. You actually have to accomplish something first, and then whatever you wear becomes the representation of it. No, it doesn't have to be it could be your glasses. It could be a hat. It could be a bald head. It could be we had a mayor here that wore a big flower bouquet whenever she talked in press interviews. So, it could be many things.

The Power of Consistency in Branding

Laura Ries: But having that distinction and having something that is repeated can be very helpful.

Michael Krigsman: Years ago, got glasses of this shape. And when I go to conferences and so forth or give a talk, people say, they recognize me because I'm wearing the glasses.

Laura Ries: Most people change their glasses every time. They change with the fashions. And look at Anna Wintour of Vogue. Vogue is focused on fashion. What is fashion but change? Yet her look never changed. The bob with the glasses. It's always the same. It shows that it's timeless fashion.

And so yes. Think about the power is not that you wore those glasses for one year, but that you've worn them repeatedly. And every time you get glasses, you limit yourself to just that style. But that's the approach, and that takes courage.

Strategic Responses to Market Disruption

Michael Krigsman: We have another question from Twitter. "How can an incumbent combat a challenger, especially a new disruptive entrant? How will applying the strategic enemy approach help?"

Laura Ries: You gotta take 'em seriously early, and that's the opportunity to get them in with your own brand. If you think about the rise of Red Bull, brands don't take new categories like energy drink, it feels like maybe it was overnight, but it wasn't. It took 10 years for them to reach $100 million. Coca-Cola doesn't get out of bed for at least 100, until a market's $100 million. But when they finally woke up and tried to do something, it was too late.

Instead, you've got to get in there early and either launch your new brand or go ahead and buy them. What is the one of the thing, best things that Google did? They bought YouTube right away. So, doing that, understanding the power of that early or launching your own brand is a great way to go it.

Now, what do most companies do? They wait too long, and then they launch line extensions. So, Coca-Cola Energy, loser. Tab Energy, loser. Even Full Throttle was just a me-too copy. It wasn't different.

And one of the best brands that went up against Red Bull did it just by being different. Everyone came in a small can. Not Monster. They came in a 16-ounce can. Now, is that better? I don't know. But it was different, visually, and they can they also then gave themselves a good name, the green color, the claw marks. And Coke has done very well by investing in Monster, so that's definitely a way.

But the biggest temptation is the line extension trap, and that's the worst way to fight against these entrants. Look at what has happened with Bud Light. Bud Light has been watered down for decades. They had Bud Light Lime, Bud Light Rita. They got Bud Light Hard Seltzer, Bud Light Hard Soda. What's a Bud Light? I don't know. It's almost a meaningless brand.

At the turn of the century initially, if you go back in the beer history, you had the regular beer, and that first was Miller Lite, this new category of light beer. And really, light beer and regular beer were strategic enemies. The problem was they were all line extensions, and it was very hard for them to position against it. Light shoulda had a new brand name.

And but at the turn of the century, things were changing, and it was beer was now it wasn't just light versus regular. You had a lot of new entrants. As I mentioned, hard lemonade. You had the Mexican influence. All the new enemies were Mexican. They were hard, they were sweet, they were alternatives.

I think what Budweiser should've done was lock together Bud and Bud Light to communicate the ultimate, the king of beer, with the iconic Budweiser imagery, the Clydesdales, all of these things together, instead of line extending Bud Light.

Do what Coca-Cola has done. Recently, they've combined both the regular sugar version with their zero version in one red umbrella color that unifies them together. Because Coke today is not really they're not fighting Pepsi. Coke is fighting energy drinks, and water, and all the alternatives. So together, I think, Coke and full sugar, or no sugar, is stronger together in fighting those enemies.

Michael Krigsman: Why are line extensions such a tempting trap?

Laura Ries: Well, 'cause logically they make sense. We put this brand everyone knows and loves, and we extend it on something else, and we'll get we'll leverage that extension. But the problem is the mind doesn't think like that. The mind thinks category first.

And so when you go to the store and you say, "Hmm, I'd like a hard seltzer," you don't think, "Do I" you think, "I want a White Claw." You don't go in saying, "I want a Bud Light. Do I want a Bud Light Zero? Do I want a Bud Light Seltzer? Do I want a Bud Light Beer?" It's the category first.

So when you put your brand name on multiple categories, it undermines the power of your brand name standing for, representing, and dominating the category itself. So it's a very, very important principle. In fact, I say today the strategic enemy of positioning is line extension, 'cause it can be so detrimental, especially when you face focused competitors.

Here's the thing. All of the light beers were all line extensions, and as a result, the leading beer, Bud Light, was the winner because they didn't face a focused competitor. So, in that case it worked. But today, there's always, in most cases, focused competition. So, you're better strategy, new brands for new categories.

Michael Krigsman: It's tempting for these companies, folks working in these companies to fall back into logic rather than understanding perception and psychology.

Laura Ries: You think about, what did Coke do? They launched a product called Coke Life because they saw people where they didn't want the sugar, they didn't want the artificial sweeteners. "We're gonna launch Coke Life. It'll use our brand. We're gonna make it green, so they know it's different, and it's gonna have stevia and cane sugar."

But what does that do to the mind? First of all, it says, "Your regular product sucks." Maybe it's perceived now as Coke Death. If this is Coke Life, what is regular Coke? It makes your own product look bad. That's a very dangerous perception thing to mess with.

It also wasn't very successful either 'cause it wasn't the real thing. It was in green. And so, that is a it was a category opportunity, but it wasn't gonna be successful with the line extension. Because today, who do we see are the winners? Poppi and Olipop, these are brands that stand for a healthier soda. They have prebiotics. They have fiber. But it also is that stevia, cane sugar sort of mixture. It is a popular idea, but it's best done with a new name for that new category.

Branding Principles and Podcast Advice

Michael Krigsman: What advice do you have for podcasts like CXOTalk?

Laura Ries: Right. Well, you wanna stand for something. You wanna say exactly what topic you're gonna cover, who your audience is. Having that narrow focus to be able to differentiate from what you're not gonna hear.

I think many times people are focused on telling people what we do, what we do. But what aren't we gonna do? What aren't we gonna talk about on this podcast? Let's remember that, and that's an important way to make your brand memorable.

Michael Krigsman: Well, Laura Reese, thank you so much for taking time to speak with us today. It's been very eye-opening, this world of branding as you express it.

Laura Ries: Well, it is so fun to be here talking about my favorite topic.

Michael Krigsman: And everybody, thank you for listening. 

Before you go, subscribe to the CXOTalk newsletter so we can notify you about upcoming shows. Our shows are live, and you can ask questions of the guest. We have amazing guests coming up. So, go to cxotalk.com, check it out, and we'll see you again next time. Thanks so much, everybody, and hope you have a great day.