Telecom Consumer Chief Talks Market Disruption

Michael Krigsman: We're exploring telecom today on CXOTalk, episode 870. In a special conversation with Jenifer Robertson, AT&T’s Executive Vice President of Mass Markets. She has P&L responsibility for 100 billion dollars in revenue, and 60,000 employees report to her.

Jenifer Robertson: I started in systems analytics.

I started coding and mainframe software and found my way into telecom. I worked my way through sales service, frontline install, and repair all the way up through the ranks, and now I have the opportunity to lead an amazing group of people.

Michael Krigsman: What's it like to manage such a large organization and be responsible for literally a hundred billion dollars in revenue?

Jenifer Robertson: It's a very rewarding position. You get to represent the voices of customers and the people who serve them. We get to talk to customers, take their feedback, and turn it into products and services that meet their needs. And we get to take the people who serve those customers and listen to their feedback of what makes their jobs difficult, build tools, build processes that simplify it, and then turn that into easier ways, more efficient ways to serve customers, and pull costs out of the business, expanding margins for share owners.

So it really turns into a job about how do we serve customers, how do we serve employees, and then how do we serve our shareowners. And that leads into the P&L returns that we're able to put on the books that you keep talking about.

Michael Krigsman: I just want to remind everybody that, as always, there is a tweet chat, or we could say now, X chat, on Twitter (X).

If you have questions, Use the hashtag “cxotalk”. And if you are watching on LinkedIn, just pop your questions into the chat. I hope you guys take advantage of this because what a great opportunity to ask Jenifer Robertson whatever you want. Jenifer, so much disruption is going on with telecom right now. Can you describe some of those disruptions?

Jenifer Robertson: It all comes back to starting with the customer. And when we look at the journey we've been on for a little over four years. We looked four years ago and said we need to reorient ourselves around the customer. Customers know and expect what they want from their connectivity provider.

And candidly, AT&T, we weren't meeting those needs. And so we did the research, we listened, and we knew that the biggest pain point was our very strong and loyal customer base was not feeling valued and appreciated. And that led to the fact that we had the highest churn rate in the industry. And we wanted to solve for that.

We needed to grow, and we were not doing that for a period of time. We knew we needed to grow. We knew the most efficient way to grow is to keep the customers you have, especially when you have such valuable customers. And so at that point in time, it was a complete reorganization, a reshift of focus. To our customers and we launched a series of plays, the most visible of which was our launch of best deals for everyone.

That was a construct that said we will treat our existing customers the same as new customers. It was a differentiated play. It's now copied in some form or fashion across the industry. At the time, it was very unique. And then we continued to build on that. With a series of offers, pricing constructs and new products, new distribution plays that met customers where they were met unmet needs and solve for pain points and repositioned AT&T in a way to serve its customer base and attract new ones.

And we've seen over the last four years, customers demanding more and more from their connectivity providers. And that's the disruption I think we're seeing in the industry. As technology advances, as connectivity demands increase, customers want more and more from the providers who are bringing it to them.

Michael Krigsman: What I find fascinating is when you talk about disruption, it stems from the point of view of the customer rather than. Technology-driven disruptions. I speak with a lot of people in technology. And so when we talk about disruption or they talk about disruption, it begins with we have a new technology.

Jenifer Robertson: Technology absolutely enables disruption. And so when we reshift and we take it from the customer's lens. Into how do we meet their need? We have found a different type of unlock. And that is where we are finding our way through continuing to advance our product roadmaps, our network build and network roadmaps and bringing all of our customer service advancements.

An example is bring AI technology advancement into our customer service environment. We have taken the last several years, invested nearly 750 million, a little over that, to our call center operations to bring personalized AI, where our call center representatives talking to customers have more personalized recommendations.

That they can make to customers, they have guided experiences that they're being walked through as they talk to a customer so they can better respond to and solve for a need. Customers calling in have an ability to have a more guided experience and self solve a problem to resolution without having to talk to an expert.

And they are more satisfied with that resolution. AI enables that, and it's a more satisfied customer on the end of that interaction than it was previously. When it results in a more satisfied customer, and their problem is resolved, the pain point's resolved, then technology enabled it.

But technology didn't drive that it enabled it. And so we're trying to solve it from the customer lens, and that's a reorientation internally of how we think about these problems and build our roadmaps.

Michael Krigsman: Please subscribe to our newsletter. Check out cxotalk.com. We have amazing shows coming up. Subscribe and join our community. How do you drive that change? Internal reorientation, looking at the business through that lens of what matters to the customer as opposed to, oh, we have all these new technologies that are available to us that will change the world. 

So what's the difference between these points of view and how do you shape that culture and push that culture through?

Jenifer Robertson: It starts from the top with a very strong and aligned message that we are going to be a customer-centered company. And it starts with research that helps us understand what do customers want and need and where are we going to start solving for pain points. First, but I'll start with we had a very good set of research and an excellent exercise and reorienting ourselves around.

What is our purpose as a company? How does our purpose align to our strategy of being a converged company that is going to focus and simplify our focus on being the leading connectivity provider and we're going to focus on 5G wireless connectivity and fiber. Converge those in a way only we can do, get connectivity to Americans, and then bring that to bear with a customer centricity and products and services that matter to consumers and businesses.

And do that in a way that is simple. And demonstrates the expertise that we have from doing this for over 145 years and do it in a way that inspires people. And then we have the research to bear that says here is the customer pain point that we can solve for and we have a list of them. And then we have technology roadmaps that are taking advantage of all of the technology advancement.

That's a multi-year set of projects we can go work through and technology experts to do that. And we have networks to build, and that's multi year, and experts to build that. And then we orient our product teams around the customer pain points. So there's a lot of activity that happens in parallel that has to get coordinated.

But when you're all aligned on those very clear goals you're able to work those in parallel and start bringing things to market that matter to customers.

Michael Krigsman: We have an interesting question coming in from Twitter, from Arsalan Khan, who's a regular listener and Arsalan. I always appreciate that you join us and ask such great questions.

And he says this, what is the relationship between external customers versus internal customers? Who defines what is a customer and how do you make this consistent across the organization?

Jenifer Robertson: The framework that I have used is relations, relational steps from the customer. So I mentioned I, I started my career as a first line, frontline manager in a call center and had my very early lessons and the people you learn from are those who are talking to the customer because I walked in brand new and those 12 customer facing experts taught me and they had a lot that they had to teach me.

But there are jobs where you are in a customer facing role and organizations where you do that and you are that first layer. To customer facing, and then there's organizations that I would say are one more layer removed that tend to be more corporate functions. Each layer across the customer is the one that is closer.

The organization that's closer to the external customer, either a consumer or business. That's one way to think about it. Or we can think about it as partners internally. Language gets used both ways. At the end of the day, all of us are serving that external customer on DSO. We focused a lot at first using that customer-oriented language of depending on where you are in that layer that I talked about; you are serving an internal customer that can help shift mindsets when needed.

But really, over the last probably 18 months, I have noticed everybody orienting to serving that external customer. And so I think that's an evolution, a maturity of us advancing through this customer-centric mode, maturing in our operating model so that we know how we work together better.

It's always a journey, but we know better how we work together and we are knowing, we are measuring ourselves on how we serve those customers externally and how we build the brand for those customers.

Michael Krigsman: So your operating model then begins with the reference point of what that external customer needs based on the combination of your research and the feedback that you're getting from your front line team.

Employees who are actually working with these folks. So that operating model, then the anchor point is what is that external customer need and want and the technology roadmap then supports that. Is that an accurate way of saying it? I don't mean to put words in your mouth.

Jenifer Robertson: It's accurate with one input, and then we use other inputs that the front line input, the input from our experts is one input to what do customers need.

We have strong research coming in from other sources and a good marketing research team that is helping us there. And we have very strong technology and network teams. That are building their roadmaps and building those platforms that we can then put our products and services on top of.

And so I would say yes the customer facing experts are a critical part of the feedback loop into what we build. And then we use additional sources of research to augment that.

Michael Krigsman: We have another question from LinkedIn and this is from Greg Walters who's also a regular listener and Greg, thank you for always watching and he says, how do you see Starlink or others impacting the overall telecom market?

What's the impact of these new players?

Jenifer Robertson: We'll run the play we just did. Customers want reliable connectivity everywhere, and that is exactly what we intend to do. We recently launched the AT&T guarantee. One of the pillars of that is an acknowledgement that customers want connectivity everywhere.

And they want it to be reliable, dependable so what you're calling out in that question is they want to have that connectivity no matter where they are AT&T announced its relationship with AST providing satellite services as we do that work and work with them to launch satellite services and there are spots where their connectivity is challenged, satellite will provide that coverage in those remote locations.

And so it has a play in ensuring that those few white spaces available are covered With satellite. And there are areas today that's already covered. Depending on devices you carry and what type of messaging you want to do, we have you covered already. And A. S. T. fills that in as we continue to expand our network coverage.

It'll be a critical role.

Michael Krigsman: Your perspective is from the point of view of the consumer, consumers want coverage, it's a pretty simple equation from that standpoint.

Jenifer Robertson: AT&T provides the largest wireless network in the United States. And so if we think about your wireless coverage in the United States, you're able to use your wireless phone in the, largest space.

And then you have the fiber network as the largest fiber builder and provider in the country. And we offer the converged experience on top of that. And then we say, okay, that covers at home and on the go and at the place you work, live, play, work and everywhere in between. And then you think about where are you in venues, as an example And we would bring in our AT&T Turbo product, which we announced also launching recently.

And so you look AT&T Turbo, and that's a unique differentiated product that allows customer to have a performance boost and have a heightened experience for those where that matters. Enhancing video, like you and I are doing right now. That may be a product that matters to you individually. And so customers can add that onto their plan.

And ensuring that in your particular case, you have the right coverage, speed, and reliability for your use. Customers who cruise and want coverage at sea we launched recently a cruise pass that allows you to have the coverage at sea. International roaming and a very strong international day pass plan that's competitive as you go internationally.

You have coverage there. And continuing to add to that type of reliable network that adds to our guarantee is what, is how we look at that for customers. The technology is what helps make that happen and we continue to make it more and more robust. so much.

Michael Krigsman: Here's a question from Twitter, and it is from Niya Ragav, who says, what innovations can customers expect in the coming years from the telecom industry to complement the automotive and other sectors, particularly with advancements in artificial intelligence?

Jenifer Robertson: Artificial intelligence offers really such a wide open space for several industries. That's a great one to point out. Where I look at AI, we really are looking at the opportunity to improve. Productivity. I mentioned where we can go in and help with service our operations there, but I bring it back to why does it improve productivity?

Because it helps us personalize for customers. And what do we do when we can personalize for customers? We also then have an ability to match products and services on top of that. For customers. And so there is this virtuous cycle of we are able to better match and personalize. There's a revenue generating opportunity there.

We do that more efficiently, which increases productivity and expands the margins associated with it. So there is this virtuous cycle that comes from establishing AI specifically as we go hyper personal for customers. That's the benefit that I see when I look at it. And then we can apply it in our customer service operations.

We can apply it more broadly across how we install and repair services. We can do it in our marketing programs. Those are three areas that we are looking at. Certainly as we take it across the various aspects of marketing Think products, Think pricing, Think promotions. And so that's the That's broadly thinking how I do it.

And then you can apply it within the verticals, automotive and connected cars was brought up, but I broadly that's the framework I would use.

Michael Krigsman: We have another question. Arsalan Khan comes back and he's asking about the impact Of AI on your organization. And he's also asking, how do you balance looking at technology and not succumbing to shiny object syndrome where you're chasing the technology?

Because it's, that's what we technologists like to do is chase technology. And. Also any thoughts on the governance of all of this again, to ensure that you're staying focused on, on your core mandate.

Jenifer Robertson: That's why it's so critical to start with the customer. So I'm sure there are different models out there that work for companies and for leaders.

What I would tell you is the unlock has been for us to keep an organization focused, to keep us true to our priorities, and to really gut check has been, does this start with the customer period. And if we can say yes. And tie it to a solution or a value-creation moment for the customer. Then we say it's worth exploring.

Some of those might have more risk associated with them. Some may have more certainty and say yes, this is an immediate need. It might have some immediate value that it generates. Others might be a bigger bet. And so then that gets into capital allocation and resource allocation of how much of a bet do we want to make and balancing the allocation across.

And we've been very deliberate about our discussions on how much do we want to place in each bucket of investing for future and potential versus investing on the known, we've got to run the business and deliver today. But there's an acknowledgment of you have to do both, and that's the job of leadership to go ensure we are doing both and not over rotating one way or the other.

But when you at least have to have the agreement that what we are doing is aligning to how do we go deliver on customer needs with the most advanced technology that we believe we do what we need, and in our space. We have a strategy that says it's a converged network. That is our unique asset that we have.

We're the only carrier in the United States that can provide a fiber asset and a 5G wireless asset that's differentiated. We have owner's economics on those two assets. We bring them to bear. And so having those fundamentals in place keeps us very very focused. And that's been key over the last four years for us.

Michael Krigsman: You're really talking about the balance between running the business as it needs to run without disruption to your customers versus the investment in innovation that you need to make and how you balance between these two.

Jenifer Robertson: The only thing I'd tweak in what you said, Michael, is it's not a versus it's a because of we do both, and our technology partners sit at the table as a part of the team we are on the same team and we're aligned on the goal of it.

We invest in the technology because we are serving customers and solving for pain points together. And we'll bring the, here's the business problem, business outcome. We want to drive because of this customer pain point. And then we work to solve and they'll look at here's the best technical solution, or here's the next advancement that's come forward that we can do.

Within the constraints we've set. And here's things we can. Trade off and we'll have that conversation, but we have technology help experts that help us through that process. And so there's a speed of trust that has built up as we've aligned on common goals.

Michael Krigsman: You've mentioned convergence the converged network a number of times.

Can you tell us about that and why is that so valuable to you and to your customers?

Jenifer Robertson: It's important to customers. Nearly 80 percent of customers tell us that they want fiber and wireless from one provider. And look, that's a longstanding industry play. And so early on there were cynics. Cynics can fuel the fire sometimes.

It gets you really convicted in a line together, but the data tells us nearly 80%. It's 77%, if we want to be precise, of customers tell us they want fiber and wireless together. And when that stat is there. The quickest way to do that is to go out with a bundled discount and start anchoring homes so you can get customers aligned and secure your accounts.

What we were clear on is if that's the only play, this doesn't generate durable customer relationships and revenue for the long run. What really makes it unique is when we build products and services that are converged for customers when their experience is different. And what I would say is that's really where the magic starts to happen.

Michael Krigsman: Why is this focus on the customer so difficult whether for AT&T or? Other organizations, because on the surface seems pretty straightforward, right? Let's just pay attention to the, what the customer wants. And that'll be our North star, our reference point. And we'll just do that, but it's not so simple.

So why is this so hard?

Jenifer Robertson: It's just a matter of aligning on a common business goal across a large, complex organization keeping people focused on one metric. That's a common leadership challenge. It's a common business challenge, especially as companies scale and go through various cycles. And you test new growth strategies, you test new business strategies.

And sometimes it's a view of let's simplify, get back to our core. And get back to the basics. And a little over four years ago, almost five now it was a get back to the basics moment. And I would just tell you it was the right time to do we were shedding some of the assets we had acquired.

We refocused on fiber and 5G and a reorientation around the customer. So it was a rally cry. To the company, and it was candidly a get back to our roots energizing moment that made it the right moment. But it's also, I would say, a resurgence of consumers are they have access to more information.

They are more informed purchasers and they are more demanding of the companies they are buying products from because of that. And so it's not just about what AT&T was doing. It is a recognition of the market and the consumers changing around us. And needing to meet their needs. So both of those kind of, happened.

And we've just built up our skills. It's a journey. I would say we're on the front end of it, but I'm proud of what the team has done so far.

Michael Krigsman: We have another interesting question from Twitter, from Lisbeth Shaw, who asks, how do you manage investing in new technology versus the market adoption risk, which is something that you alluded to earlier.

How do you make those decisions?

Jenifer Robertson: Yeah, I think that comes back to the allocation between where do we go place bets on potentially new disruptive or new innovations that we want to test the market on versus what we know are the more near term. 12 to 18 months deliver in the near term and, um, a core product management versus a new product innovation view on both.

We have that view of launch it and test penetration rates and usage rates would be ways that we would look at that. There's also a view that says, can we make sure that we have the distribution in place and the capacity to be able to explain this to customers in a way that meets their needs.

Is simple and is, priced at a point, has a value proposition, and can be merchandised such that we can launch it at scale if it's a scaled product, or in a targeted manner if it's a more niche product. As an example, Turbo we launched is more of a focused product, found a broader market need, and have scaled it since.

Michael Krigsman: You've mentioned the role of data and research a number of times. Can you talk a little about the kinds of data and the analytics that you use to understand the customer and how that shapes your strategy and your planning and response to the market?

Jenifer Robertson: That was one we found. We had disparate data and research teams.

We've been on a long journey to build a strong data platform and data office and certainly have built our expertise there. It's a great example of where our technology teams are great partners. We knew we needed to build world class marketing expertise and have had a concerted effort to value the knowledge that we have internally from a long history of building networks, but also acknowledging that there is external talent that we needed to bring in to augment where we don't have the type of experience that today's customers demand and today's marketplace and this marketing space is one where we have been able to bring in some really great talent.

And so taking disparate data and research functions and getting those together into a research arm that we're able to tap into has been very helpful. So I would say we mentioned our front, our customer facing experts are certainly a tool and part of the investment I mentioned earlier and our customer operations has led to us being able to better mine from all of those interactions.

But we also have been able to get the research arm stood up within our marketing organization. Such that we are able to get research flowing through position the questions, but also consistently monitor market and industry trends, customer trends and then go seek new areas of growth and have that feeding into our product organizations.

Sometimes that's a feed into, and sometimes it's a request from the product organizations as well. And so building that muscle. Is a work in progress.

Michael Krigsman: And how do you see the consumers evolving and what they want? Have you seen changes that then force you to drive changes in the types of products and services that you're offering?

Jenifer Robertson: Yes, and then I'll say a little bit of a no, but yes, I would say consumers demands are increasing. What consumers what our research tells us is consumers want dependable connectivity, and that is on an increasing demand. Our demand on our network and usage is continuing to increase, and we project that to continue to do into the future.

And the connectivity space is a great place to be in. People want to be more and more connected. And they want that connectivity to be dependable. Customers want, consumers want prices, deals, offers that provide them a value exchange that they see transparency and they can trust. They want a good deal they trust.

And then, they want to know they get the best deal for them. And then they want to come across and they want the service experience they deserve. I think that we could go back and say, we could have this conversation 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and probably the core tenants of that don't change much, but the level of dependability, the level of transparency and the level of, I want what I deserve has.

Increased exponentially, and so the ability to meet those demands, we mentioned hyper personalization earlier, that's where the technology advancements and the enablement of what technology can do. Is what is increasing those demands, but also allowing us to step up to it. So it is this cycle of, is it the technology?

It's like a chicken and an egg. Did the technology drive it or is that why you can meet it? Yes. But so it is, that's what is the pillar of our guarantee. Like that is the research. That's what told us we should launch the guarantee. It's why we launched the guarantee in January. That's what it is fundamentally built on.

Network, you can depend on the offers and the deals that give you the satisfaction. You're getting the best for you and the service you deserve. They also want to know that when you mess up, Because all companies are made of humans and so therefore you will mess up. We just want to know you're going to make it right.

Just tell me you did it and make it right so that I don't have to worry about it. Don't make it my problem. And so that, that's the other piece of the guarantee. We don't put that on there because we're trying to caveat it. We're just giving you peace of mind that if we can't meet these three things, we will make it right.

That was the last piece of that proactively. We will come in and we will make it right. This is a journey we're on with you. We will get it and we will continue to add to the guarantee. It's not a one time splash. This is our promise to you.

Michael Krigsman: This aspect of trust, I find very interesting because you are marketing and approaching the consumer. You're in alignment with a set of core psychological fundamental psychological needs that we as people have, as opposed to pushing against.

Jenifer Robertson: That's right. And it's something that has to be done with actions. It's something that I think over 145 years of building infrastructure it's something that Positions you to do.

Our research says the AT&T brand and our level of commitment to the customer over the last four years positions us as a brand to have the most credibility here. We know that customers are four times more likely to purchase from a brand that will guarantee its services. And we know that there are 70 percent have a higher loyalty to a customer, to a brand that will have a guarantee.

So they're more likely to purchase, and they are more likely to stay, and we are unique in our ability to come forward with that type of promise to customers. We also know that it puts us out there publicly. We have to live up to it. And we're so confident on the journey we're on and our commitment to continue it, that we're willing to say it and put it out there for customers and say, we're in it with you.

It's not a marketing message of one month or one quarter. It is a, this is a journey we're on with you. And here's the roadmaps we're going to commit to going forward. And that I'll tell you the last piece to it from an employee culture standpoint. It is absolutely a rallying point, focusing the company on connectivity and fiber and 5G, focusing the company on the customers.

This is that next step in the journey and making sure employees knew those customer facing experts knew we all had their back because we're going to go say publicly, this is what we're willing to step up to. It's been the next level. Of rallying cry of energizing shot in the arm of it's another Commitment another several years we're continuing down this journey.

You're not going to see us diverge. That's been very exciting internally to

Michael Krigsman: What kind of changes did you have to make internally in order for the operations to support the external, customer-facing guarantee that you've been describing?

Jenifer Robertson: This was a, an effort that took well over a year to build.

It wasn't a quick It wasn't a quick exercise. It was a couple of years in the making and we tested it several different ways. And I would say the best part about it was born from workshops internally on how do we differentiate with customers. How do we go out and differentiate ourselves in the marketplace?

What's the best thing we could do for customers? So this was a grassroots idea that then we handed into the leaders in the organizations and said, how would you make this better? And so it's one that had buy in from our teams early and they helped shape it. Now, to go take it across, as you mentioned a wide set of employees who need to implement and execute, obviously there's a lot of training, there's a lot of Tooling that takes place.

It's all of the things that you would do to roll it across a large scaled operations. Get your people ready communications, training, processes changed all of the tools updated. And then there's some fundamental basics. Make sure you have the metrics and the scorecards in place. And there's some interesting things that, that ideas popped up from leaders across the company that are probably unexpected.

Our technology and network organizations said, let's shift how we do this, and our operational KPI scorecards will start with an AT&T guarantee scorecard. That sounds fairly basic, but it's a, it changes the mindset. It changes how you think about allocating resources and funds. And so that's been A shot in the arm as well.

I'll keep using that analogy. It makes people pause and think differently and it sparks the culture change.

Michael Krigsman: Everything you're doing is at such a large scale that I can only imagine all the pieces and the, how the tentacles must flow through the organization in order to align all of these many different pieces that you were just describing.

Jenifer Robertson: It's a tops down effort. Our senior leaders are bought in and so it really is an effort of get that. It starts with this idea and the teams build it. And so you have buy in with our leadership teams, but then socialize the idea upward and get the buy in at the top. And so our senior leadership team is all in with it.

And communicated it across. So it becomes a company wide, brand, and employee effort. And then it rolls through all organizations. That's the difference maker. And then it's consistency from here. The difference maker over the last four years has been consistency. In our offers, in our execution, in our messaging to customers.

The difference maker with the guarantee will be the same.

Michael Krigsman: Establishing that baseline that you believe works and then the processes to repeat that execution or put that into practice across the company in a consistent way, as you were just saying.

Jenifer Robertson: Correct. That's right. Having the scorecarding in place, the messaging in place the accountability, having our products and our roadmaps ladder into the promises and making sure we are consistently delivering against that for customers and then ensuring that we adjust as needed.

Not all of those are going to land perfectly. You got to learn as you go and adjust make it right. So to speak, we'll make it right for customers. And when we have. Internally some of the ideas land, some don't. Learn from the data we get and adjust quickly.

Michael Krigsman: You must look very closely at the competitive market.

How does the nature of competition in telecom inform what you do and the mandate that you've been describing being so customer focused?

Jenifer Robertson: We study the technology landscape. We study the industry landscape. We study our consumers and the business customers for my counterpart that, that leads our business organization and so if you're a, just a voracious student of the industry and then take those applications from other industries that are best in class and bring them in and try to innovate against that.

We try to be very astute on that and have tried to increase our external outside in skills. over this time period as well. And what I would tell you is we do that so that we can stay very current and that we can understand if trends are shifting, but we do it also to test against. Our strategy and to ensure we're not missing something, but we haven't let it veer us away from staying focused on our game in the near term.

So I would tell you it's not for a sense of saying we don't test our convictions. We don't scenario plan. That's important. But we also don't let quarterly play or a competitive splash distract from what the long term strategy is. Thank you very much. So there's a difference between, long term strategy, three year planning and an end quarter play that's a response and we try to be very specific with the teams about that and keep our teams focused on execute our game play, understand that there's something that needs a near term response and be disciplined about it, and we've been very clear over the last several years.

We're going to go after and compete for profitable growth. We will compete for that. But we aren't going to chase empty calorie growth, we are going to measure our profitable growth by service revenue in the industry, and we will do that. We aren't going to lay down on that, however we're going to stay focused on our game of driving converged households and driving disciplined, durable revenue growth.

Michael Krigsman: It's a very interesting phrase, you're not seeking empty calorie growth and also maintaining that discipline of being clear on what your actual long term goals and being distinct and differentiated from blips that are coming up in the market. Maybe your competitors are offering or what have you that are less important.

In the long run very quickly because we're going to run out of time and I want to talk with you about women in technology and leadership But we have another question from twitter. How do you ensure that the customer remains the north star? even after you as a leader have Moved on or just broadly speaking as your leadership within AT&T mass market changes.

How do you ensure the continuity of the focus that you've been describing?

Jenifer Robertson: One of the best attributes of a leader, and I was taught this by leaders who came before me, certainly, is the aspects or the qualities you're trying to build for the culture and the organization should outlast you. It's not about you as the individual, it's about what you're trying to build.

For the share owner, for the customer and for the employees that are there. And so what I would tell you is a lot of what we have built is from expertise within the organizations and what we continue to try to build. A lot of the work that we've done around the customers is coming from some of the The organizations that we have built up over the last four years and continue to try to find talent to augment.

And so what gives me confidence there is continuing to build the talent. So whether I'm in this position or not, whether other leaders are in their position. The organizations and the talent is there, such that we have the rhythm and the muscle and the the muscle memory really to keep this going. And if you build enough of a groundswell, The organization isn't going to let that die quickly, no matter what leaders swap out.

It's very hard to overcome. Hence, we're still on the journey of reorienting around the customer. To your question earlier of why is this so hard? It's ingrained over a long period of time. But we've been there before focused on the customer and so we've just got to get back. So I think what gives me confidence is this isn't a tops down you must.

It starts there, but then it's a bottoms up build. And the bottoms up build is what gives it durability. And I see the two meeting in the middle and coming closer and closer together.

Michael Krigsman: Yeah, it's a very interesting point about the muscle memory and coming at it from both directions, giving, providing the ongoing durability that enables the consistency independent of who happens to be occupying a particular leadership slot at a particular moment in time.

Jenifer Robertson: It's a slower process, so if there's anything more painful or more frustrating about it, it's just the speed with which it happens over the larger or more complex organizations. We'd all like to speed it up, so that you get to that durability faster, but It happens and that's what keeps it there.

And that's what is very encouraging to come into every single day.

Michael Krigsman: I think it's very important to discuss the role of female leadership. You're a female leader in one of the largest organizations in the world and also a technology based organization. Do you think that women have unique challenges as they try to become leaders and senior executives?

Jenifer Robertson: I look around tables and sometimes I'm the only female in the room and sometimes I'm one of many and it's around rooms and think maybe I have unique challenges become of that, because of that, but often I, more often these days I look around the room and am apt to think about other people at those tables have their own unique challenges too.

But I tend to find if I can have that frame of mind the rest of it becomes easier. And then I get focused on how do we find some commonalities for the business outcome, for the customer for the share owner. And that helps. Past that, it's how do I help others who might be facing challenges that I can recognize from my younger self.

And help them navigate through that more quickly.

Michael Krigsman: You don't see it about, as being about you personally.

Jenifer Robertson: It's not something I ignore. I think you can't ignore it, but I very much try to separate. It's not me personally. I, it's too easy to see others have their own. So it's a broader piece in the more we can help each other through that, the more we help.

Everyone that's facing the unique challenges. And then the more we can help the business grow, the customers grow. If customers grow I think we solve broader problems.

Michael Krigsman: What advice do you have for women who aspire to senior leadership roles?

Jenifer Robertson: Everyone should give themselves the grace of humble confidence.

And so that's a leadership attribute regardless of gender, that I hold up as the most important. Humble confidence is simply having the confidence to go out, set the vision, take the risk, step out into the limelight or into the arena, and be willing to take that, the shots that come with it. But also have the humility to understand you're not the only one.

With the ideas and the knowledge and take risks in front of people and fail and show them it's okay to learn and keep going.

Michael Krigsman: And Jenifer, in 10 seconds, what can men do to help women in leadership roles?

Jenifer Robertson: They can do the exact same thing as they have the leadership role of show humble confidence and demonstrate it for all.

And if they do what a lot of men have done in my career. Which is demonstrate that for themselves and for the leaders around them including people like me they're advocating for the right leaders.

Michael Krigsman: I love that show humble confidence and help the people around you and with that we are out of time a huge Thank you to Jenifer Roberts, and she is AT&T's Executive Vice President of Mass Markets. Jenifer, thank you so much for taking your time to be with us today.

I really appreciate it.

Jenifer Robertson: I enjoyed it, Michael. Thank you.

Michael Krigsman: And thank you to everybody who watched. Now, before you go, please subscribe to our newsletter. Check out cxotalk.com. We have amazing shows coming up. Subscribe and join our community. Everybody have a great day and we'll see you again next time.

Take care.